Tudor Rose

Oddities

 Tudor Rose

This page covers various odd topics that don't seem to fit anywhere else.

Shoes and Clothes      Customary Measures      A Tudor set of measures      Stourbridge Fair cry      Numbers      Mohs scale of hardness of minerals

Shoe Measures and Clothes Sizes

One of my correspondents told me of a measure used in shoe manufacture: "I have worked in the shoe repair trade for 50 years, and the thickness of sole leather is measured in irons. There are 48 irons in 1 inch, and the average thickness of a normal leather sole on a gents shoe is between 8 and 10 iron.   This is not a measuring system that is fading into obsurity, like many others, but is very much alive, and is in general use in the shoe manufacure and repair trades.   However now that we are 'Europeans', it expected that we operate in millimetres rather than irons, but it is a difficult task to change the ways of an established method , especially with the older generation.   This is purely a British measuring system. I am an agent for a German tannery, and "irons" are totally alien to them."

While on the subject of shoes, here are standard shoe sizes. Note that the Americans have different shoe sizes for men and women, although boys and girls seem to be the same.
British European American
(men/boys)		 American
(women)		 American
(girls)
8268.5
8.526.59
9279.5
9.527.510
102810.5
10.528.511
112911.511.5
11.5301212
1230.512.513.5
12.5311313
1331.513.513.5
13.532.211
1331.51.5
1.533.522
2342.54.52.5
2.535353
335.53.55.5
3.53646
4374.56.5
4.537.557
5385.57.5
5.53968
639.56.58.5
6.54079
740.57.59.5
7.541810
8428.510.5
8.542.59
9439.5
9.54410
1044.510.5
10.54511
114611.5
11.546.512
124712.5

Here is a description of the internal logic behind the shoe systems!

A correspondent claims that a British size nine boot is very close to being a foot long.


UK Men's Sizes of Clothes
SizeSMLXL2XL3XL4XL5XL
Collar (ins)14.5-1515-1616.5-1717.518-18.519-2020.5-2121.5-22
Chest (ins)35-3839-4142-4546-4950-5253-5657-5960-62
Waist (ins)30-3233-3536-3839-4142-4445-4849-5152-54

I've always admired men for their ability to buy clothes by collar size!
UK Womens' Sizes of Clothes
Size101214161820222426
Corresponding Unisex Size-SMMLLXL2XL3XL
Bust (ins)33.53537394143454749
Waist (ins)262830323436384042
Hips (ins)363840424446485052

I refuse to supply sizes lower than a size 10 for women. These are UK women's sizes. I believe that the US sizes are 2 less, so a UK size 10 is a US size 8, and the infamous US size 00 is a UK size 2.

Customary Measures

I have put these here because they are a mixture of weights, volumes and even numbers, and I don't want to split them up. They come from an old reference book, 'Modern Practical Building, Volume IV' by Harry Newbold, from Caxton Publishing, London, first published in March 1934, this text was the 3rd edition December 1950.

1 bag or sack of plaster (London measure) - 14 pounds or 1 bushel
1 bag or sack of Portland cement - 200 pounds, 2 centals, or 2 bushels
1 bag or sack of lime - 186 pounds or 3 bushels
1 bundle of laths - Approx. 125 laths
500 bricks - 1 load of bricks
1 load of earth or ballast - 1 cubic yard
1 load of lime - 32 bushels
1 pig of ballast - 56 pounds
1 scam of glass - 120 pounds
1 faggot or fodder of lead (London) - 2184 pounds
1 faggot or fodder of steel - 120 pounds
However, on the capacity page, there are different definitions of a sack or bag, and a load, without specifying the material.

I have also had an email about a lime works in Derbyshire in 1794. This produced 114,138 loads of lime, or 5706 score and 18 loads. This means that there are 20 loads to a score. Also apparently there are 8 bushels to a load - yet another value for a 'load'! I would be interested if anyone has any knowledge about these units.

A Tudor set of measures

There was an exhibition at the Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge (UK) in honour of Cambridge's City Charter in 1201. This included a splendid painting, illustrated with men in academic gowns, with information about weights and measures. It was dated 1590 (which is a little odd, since Elizabeth was queen at the time, and it refers to 'the King'). Some of it was in Latin. Here are some extracts from it.

THE CHARGE OF THE CLERKE OF THE MARKET THE COURT FOR ALL MENS WEIGHT, MEASURE AND INTELLERS AND CRAFTSMEN

III BARLY CORNES MAKE A INCH
XII INCHES MAKE A FOOT
I FOOT AND A HALF IS A CUBIT
II CUBITS ARE A STEP
II STEPS AND A HALF ARE A PACE
II PACES AND III FOOT ARE A ROD
XL RODS ARE A FURLONG
VIII FURLONGS ARE A MILE
III BARLY CORNES MAKE A INCH
XII INCHES MAKE A FOOT
III FEET MAKE A YARD
XVI FEET AND A HALF MAKE A ROD
IV RODS IN BREADTH )
XL RODS IN LENGTH   ) 		MAKE AN ACRE
XXXII GRAINES TAKEN OUT OF THE MIDEST OF THE WEATE EARE,
MAKEST A PENNE, CALLED A STERLINGE.

THE KING OUR SOVEREIGN LORD BY ASSENT OF THE LORDES SPIRITVAL AND TEMPORALL AND THE COMMONS IN THIS PRESENT PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED, AND BY THE AUTHORITY OF THE SAME ORDAINED, ESTABLISHED , AND ENACTED THAT THE MEASURE OF THE BUSHEL CONTAIN VIII GALLON OF WHEATE AND EVERY GALLON CONTAIN VIII L OF WHEATE OF TROY WEIGHT, EVERY POUND CONTAIN XII OUNCES OF TROY WEIGHT AND EVERY OUNCE CONTAIN XX STERLINGS, AND EVERY STERLING BE THE WEIGHT OF XXX11 CORNES OF WHEAT THAT GREW IN THE MIDST OF THE EARE OF THE WHEATE.

IT IS ORDAINED AND ESTABLISHED THAT NO MAN SHALL BRING INTO THE REALM OF ENGLANDE OF WHAT CONTRY SOEVER, NOR MAKE WITHIN THE SAYD REALM A TUN OF WINE, EXCEPT IT CONTAIN OF ENGLISH MEASURE CCLII GALLONES, THE PIPE CXXVI GALLONES, THE TERTIAN     GALLONES, THE HOGSHEAD LXIII GALLONS, THE BARRELL OF THE HEARINGS AND ELES XXX GALLONS FULLY PAVRED, AND THE BUTT OF SALMON LXXXIV GALLONS.

ANNO R HEN VI II CA 11

HEREIN WITHIN THIS REALME AT THIS DAY TWO KINDS OF WHIGHTS, THE ON CALLED TROY BY WHICH IS WEIGHED GOLD SILVER AND BRASS. THE OTHER CALLED AVERDUPOISE WHEREBY ALL OTHER THINGS BE WEIGHED. THERE IS USED ALLSO TWO KINDS OF MEASURE, THE ONE FOR ALE AND BEERE, THE OTHER FOR WINE, OYLE AND HONY.

I've typed this in capitals and Roman numerals because that was how the original was written. The spelling is original as well! There are several points of interest.

So I suspect that this might have led to some arguments!

A correspondent has told me "Elizabeth 1 ordered a brass yard to be made in 1601 in accordance with a standard measure and copies were distributed to 58 market towns around the kingdom. This yardstick was later measured in 1797 using more scientific methods and found to be 36.015 in. These were the standards as decreed by Elizabeth in 1601 and came into widespread use at that time.

4 grains of barley1 finger (thumb width or one inch)
4 fingers1 hand
4 hands1 foot
3 feet1 yard
1760 yards1 mile

The odd thing about this is that there are 4 hands to a foot, and therefore 16 inches to a foot, which seems weird. Also, there are 4 grains of barley to the inch instead of 3 (as in the above example). However, elsewhere it's said that Edward II decreed that an inch was 3 barleycorns laid end to end. Perhaps these 4 barleycorns were side by side to make an inch. If anyone can give me some more information about Tudor measures, I would be grateful.

The cry in Stourbridge Fair

Stourbridge Fair in Cambridge used to be the largest fair in Europe in medieval times. At the start of the fair, the Cry explained the rules governing the fair. This Cry is circa 1506 or 1514/15. Spelling and punctuation has been modernised.


We charge & strictly command in the name of the King of England our Sovereiqn Lord & in the name of my Lord Chancellor of the University of Cambridge that all manner of scholars, scholars' servants & all other persons in this fair and the precincts of the same keep the King's peace & make no fray, cry, awtasse, freaking or any other noise by the which insurrections, conventicles, or gathering of people may be made in this fair to the trouble, vexing and disquieting of the King's liege people or letting of the officers of the University to exercise their offices under the pain of imprisonment & further punishment as the offence shall require.

Also we charge and command that all manner of Scholars and Scholars' servants wear no weapon to make any fray upon any of the King's people neither in coming nor in going from this fair under the pain of banishment.

Also we require and command that all manner of strangers that come to this fair, that they leave their weapon at their inns that the King's peace may be the better kept and for the occasion ensuing of the same, under the pain of forfeiting of their weapons, and for their punishment as the offence shall require. And that every innkeeper give that warning to his guests at their first coming: to leave their Weapons in their inns under the pain of punishment.

Also we charge and command that all common women and misbehaving people avoid and withdraw themselves out of this fair and the precincts of the same immediately after this cry, that the King's subjects may be the more quiet, and good rule may be the better maintained, under the pain of imprisonment.

Also we charge and command in the King's name of England, and in the name of my Lord Chancellor of the University, that all manner of bakers that bake to sell that they bake 2 loaves for one penny and a farthing for another of good paste, good boulted and lawful size after as grain goeth in the market. And every baker that baketh to sell have a mark upon his bread whereby it may be known who did bake it under the pain of forfeiture of his bread.

Also that all bakers shall obtain and keep such sizes of bread as shall be given them by the officers of the university under the pain of forfeiture of their bread if it hap any baker to be found faulty in any article pertaining to unlawful bread according to the King's laws, that then such bakers after three monitions shall be imprisoned and punished according the laws of our Sovereign Lord the King.

Also that no brewers sell into this fair nor anywhere within the precincts of the university, a barrel Of good ale above two shillings, nor a barrel of hostel ale above twelve pence, no long ale, no red ale, no ropey ale, but good and wholesome ale for man's body under the pain of forfeiture, and that every brewer, have a mark upon his barrel whereby it may be known whose it is under the pain of imprisonment and fine at the discretion of the officers of the university.

Also that every barrel of good ale hold and contain fourteen gallons, thirteen gallons of clear ale and one gallon for the rest and the hogget seven gallons that is to say six gallons and one pottle Of clear ale and the residue of rest under the pain of forfeiture and for the punishment after the discretion of the officers of the university.

Also we command that the beer brewers shall sell a kilderkin of double beer in this fair for two shillings and a kilderkin of single beer for twelve pence.

Also that no tipper nor gannaker sell in the said fair, nor within the precincts of the university, a gallon of good ale above four pence nor a gallon of hostel ale above two pence, And the beer brewers a gallon above four pence and a gallon of single beer above two pence under the pain of twelve pence for every time.

Also where great detriments, hurts and deceits hath been to the King's subjects in times past by reason of false and unlawful measures brought by potters and other persons to be sold and bought in this fair and the precincts of the same in avoiding therefore the said hurts and untrue measures, we strictly charge and command that every potter and all other persons that bring such pots to be sold in this fair or precincts of the same that they and all other from henceforth sell and buy true goods and lawful measures as gallons, pottles, quarts, and half pints under the pain of imprisonment, and there to remain till they have made fine at the will of the said officers.

Also if any brewer or beer-brewer be found faulty in any of the premises after that they have been in times amerced, then the said brewer shall be committed to prison, there to remain till he have fined at the pleasure of the officers of the university.

Also that every tippler and gannaker that selleth ale in this fair that ye have the measure well and lawfully sealed and assized according to the standard of the university, and that every gannaker and beer-brewer that hath beer to sell have a sign at the booth whereby they may the better be known under the peril of imprisonment.

Also that any vintner that hath wine to sell in this fair as white wine, red wine, claret wine, gascon, malmsey, or any other wine, that they sell no dearer than they do in London except an halfpenny in a gallon toward the carriage, and that every vintner have their pots and their measures sized & ensealed after the standard of the university under tbe pain of forfeiture & their bodies to prison.

Also that all persons that bringeth ling-fish, stockfish or any other salt-fish to sell in this fair or within the precincts of the same that they sell no rot fish, no brynt fish, no resty fish, but good lawful and wholesome for man's body under the pain of forfeiture of their fish and their bodies to prison.

Also that all manner of persons which hath salmon, herring or eels to sell in this fair that the vessels called butts, barrels, half barrels, and firkins, they sell none of them afore they be seen and searched and that the butt hold and contain eighty-three gallons, well and truly packed upon pain for every butt, barrel, half barrel so lacking their said measure six shillings and eight pence And that the great salmon be well and truly packed by itself without any meddling of any grills or broken bellied salmon with the same & that all small fish called grills be packed by them self only without any meddling upon pain of forfeiture and lofting of six shillings and eight pence for every butt, barrel and half barrel so found faulty contrary to the statute of the parliament in the which statute these points and other more be more plainly expressed.

Also that any pikemonger that bringeth fresh fish to sell in the fair, as pike, tench, roach, perch, eel or any other fresh fish that the fish be quick and liveish and of size and bigness according to the statute thereof made under the pain of forfeiture and their bodies to prison.

Also that every butcher that bringeth flesh to sell in this fair that he bringeth no rotten flesh, no murrain, no sussners, but lawful and wholesome for man's body and that every butcher bringeth the hide and the tallow of all such flesh as he shall kill to sell in this fair And that every butcher bringeth with him the liver and the lounds Of all such beasts under the pain of forfeiture.

Also that every baker that baketh horsebread to sell, that he selleth three loaves for a penny after good and lawful size and after such size as shall be given them, by the university, and that it be made of good peas & beans & other lawful stuff, upon the pain aforesaid.

Also that all brown bakers, as well as innkeepers as other, observe and keep such size of horsebread as shall be given them by the said officers, under the pains and punishments as of other bakers is rehearsed.

Also that all persons that selleth by measure as by ell or by yard woollen cloth or linen cloth, silk, worsteads sized and ensealed that they have their ells and their yards sized and ensealed after the standard of the university under the pain of forfeiture and their bodies to prison.

Also that all persons that selleth by measure as by bushel, half bushel, peck or half peck as coal, salt, mustard seed or any other thing that their bushels, half bushels and pecks be sized and sealed after the standard of the university under the pain of imprisonment and more punishment as the offence shall require.

Also that all persons that selleth by weight have good and lawful weights sized and ensealed and to agree with the standard weights of the university under the pain of imprisonment and for their fine as it shall please the officers of the university.

Also that no man shall regrate none of the foresaid things as ling fish, salt fish, stock fish, herring, salmon, pike, tench, wax, flax, osmund, rosin, yarn, pitch, tar, cloth, nor none other thing of grocery ware or any other merchandise in this fair under the gain of forfeiture and their bodies to prison & to make fine as it shall please the officers of the university. And he regrateth that buyeth any of the said things afore rehearsed or any other manner of merchandise of any man in this fair and selleth again the same thing in the said fair enhancing the price of the said thing more that it was before.

Also if there be any person that will sue by personal action either for debt, victuals, injury and trespass or think themselves wronged in any of the premises or otherwise, let him come and complain to my Lord Chancellor's Commissary and other officers of the university which shall hold and keep courts daily and hourly in this fair during the same to the intent that he shall be heard with lawful favour, right and conscience and after the liberties of the same.

Also that every butcher that bringeth flesh to sell in this market that they bring no rotten flesh &c, ut supra.

Also that every butcher that bringeth to sell in this market that they sell none of the tallow of all such beasts as they shall bring to sell in this market, but to such Rasment and tallow-candellers as are dwellers within the said university and precincts of the same, & they to make the said tallow in good and lawful candle so that the said university and town of Cambridge be nowise disappointed but the better served and that they sell not a pound of candle above a penny, and that the said butcher sell not a stone of tallow above eight pence.

Also that every innkeeper that keepeth inn that he have his bottles of hay well and lawfully made and sized and that every bottle weigh seven pound & that they sell not less than three horse loaves good and lawful for a penny under the pain of punishment after the discretion of the officers of the university.

Also that every carrier that bringeth wood to sell in this market that they bring good wood, and if it be faggot let the faggot thereof be well filled and sized & that every faggot be full seven foot long and every faggot to have two bounds & thirty-one faggots in a load well filled after the said length under the pain of forfeiture.

Also that every collier that bringeth charcoal to sell that every sack called a quarter sack holds eight bushels, saving that they be allowed for the culm and breaking by the way after the discretion of the officers of the university under pain of forfeiture.

Also that every person that bringeth grain to sell in the market that they open not afore ten of the clock nor to stand after one of the clock under the pain of forfeiture.

I like the fact that they had 'ropey ale' in those days, also that 'freaking' was disapproved of!

Most of the units are recognisable, and can be looked up on the rest of this website. However 'pottle' is new to me. It is apparently half a gallon.

It looks af if the last few items were after-thoughts, or perhaps amendments. Not only do they seem in the wrong order, and repeat what was said previously (in the case of the butcher's rotten meat), they also refer to the fair as a market instead.


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